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	<title>Comments on: The Story Behind ShopCity And Its Antitrust Complaint Against Google</title>
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	<link>http://paidcontent.org/2011/11/15/419-the-story-behind-shopcity-and-its-antitrust-complaint-against-google/</link>
	<description>The economics of digital content</description>
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		<title>By: Ty</title>
		<link>http://paidcontent.org/2011/11/15/419-the-story-behind-shopcity-and-its-antitrust-complaint-against-google/#comment-86161</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2011 07:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paidcontent.wp.gostage.it/2011/11/15/419-the-story-behind-shopcity-and-its-antitrust-complaint-against-google/#comment-86161</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seems like such cry-babies.. Quit depending on google to have any type of success.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems like such cry-babies.. Quit depending on google to have any type of success.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: colin pape</title>
		<link>http://paidcontent.org/2011/11/15/419-the-story-behind-shopcity-and-its-antitrust-complaint-against-google/#comment-86160</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[colin pape]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2011 15:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paidcontent.wp.gostage.it/2011/11/15/419-the-story-behind-shopcity-and-its-antitrust-complaint-against-google/#comment-86160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your response.

I think you underestimate how difficult it is to pose a threat to Google&#039;s reputation as well. They have loads of goodwill (because they give everything away for &#039;free&#039;, because they did such a great job at search in the early days, and also because they have a quirky, fun personality) and a chorus of defenders who assume they can do no wrong.

Whether or not Google considers us a strategic threat, no one outside of Google knows.



The fact of the matter is that it&#039;s much easier for Google to &#039;kill
competition in the cradle&#039; than to try to mitigate it after a large
brand and following has been built.

Besides, there are many large competitors that believe they unfairly use their search monopoly to prevent consumers from reaching them as well.

Regarding our content being of little value, I beg to differ. We are actually going out into the communities we serve to bring small businesses and their offers online for local shoppers. In many cases, this content does not exist anywhere else and is high-value, unique information that is structured, human-verified and serves consumer demand. We have exactly the kind of content that Google searchers want.

We are a small company, and I can assure you we have no ties to Microsoft. In fact, Gary was one of the driving forces behind the campaign to have Microsoft investigated by the FTC, so I&#039;m not sure how you think he is associated with them.

There are many steps Google could take to limit themselves from acting as both the platform and the product, and they have had ample opportunity to put procedures and policies in place to avoid creating the appearance of anticompetitive behavior. To my knowledge, none of these measures, or even an FTC investigation would require them to open proprietary technology up to competitors.

With all due respect, as you don&#039;t have a copy of our FTC filing, or know the details of our experience, I don&#039;t think you are in a position to say that there is no compelling evidence. I have offered it to you previously, and would be happy to share more information if you would like to do a follow-up article.

All the best,

Colin
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeff,</p>
<p>Thanks for your response.</p>
<p>I think you underestimate how difficult it is to pose a threat to Google&#8217;s reputation as well. They have loads of goodwill (because they give everything away for &#8216;free&#8217;, because they did such a great job at search in the early days, and also because they have a quirky, fun personality) and a chorus of defenders who assume they can do no wrong.</p>
<p>Whether or not Google considers us a strategic threat, no one outside of Google knows.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that it&#8217;s much easier for Google to &#8216;kill<br />
competition in the cradle&#8217; than to try to mitigate it after a large<br />
brand and following has been built.</p>
<p>Besides, there are many large competitors that believe they unfairly use their search monopoly to prevent consumers from reaching them as well.</p>
<p>Regarding our content being of little value, I beg to differ. We are actually going out into the communities we serve to bring small businesses and their offers online for local shoppers. In many cases, this content does not exist anywhere else and is high-value, unique information that is structured, human-verified and serves consumer demand. We have exactly the kind of content that Google searchers want.</p>
<p>We are a small company, and I can assure you we have no ties to Microsoft. In fact, Gary was one of the driving forces behind the campaign to have Microsoft investigated by the FTC, so I&#8217;m not sure how you think he is associated with them.</p>
<p>There are many steps Google could take to limit themselves from acting as both the platform and the product, and they have had ample opportunity to put procedures and policies in place to avoid creating the appearance of anticompetitive behavior. To my knowledge, none of these measures, or even an FTC investigation would require them to open proprietary technology up to competitors.</p>
<p>With all due respect, as you don&#8217;t have a copy of our FTC filing, or know the details of our experience, I don&#8217;t think you are in a position to say that there is no compelling evidence. I have offered it to you previously, and would be happy to share more information if you would like to do a follow-up article.</p>
<p>All the best,</p>
<p>Colin</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jeff Roberts</title>
		<link>http://paidcontent.org/2011/11/15/419-the-story-behind-shopcity-and-its-antitrust-complaint-against-google/#comment-86159</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Roberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Nov 2011 04:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paidcontent.wp.gostage.it/2011/11/15/419-the-story-behind-shopcity-and-its-antitrust-complaint-against-google/#comment-86159</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Colin,

Thanks for your detailed response and apologies to you and other readers it did not appear when you submitted it this afternoon (our back-end system that processes comments was down and no reader comments for this or any other story appeared until quite late this evening).

As for your substantive arguments, I stand by my final point that it seems improbable for Google to risk its reputation by manipulating its search results in order to sabotage a much smaller entity that (in my opinion at least) does not pose a strategic threat.

Nor do I belittle your accomplishment in creating a national shopping network with a number of city partners. The issue is that the type of content you are offering is not valued by search engines nor by users (the preponderance of commentary on SEO sites appears to back this position).

I take at face value your claim that you were unaware of MyTriggers and the related complainants. Still, your situation resembles the other ones in that it involves a prominent person with close ties to Microsoft. This may be a coincidence but it does not change the underlying fact; I will leave it to others to draw their own conclusions.

As for the idea that &quot;they should just come clean&quot;, Google&#039;s reticence is understandable given that the subject in question is its search algorithm -- the company&#039;s most critical trade secret. No company, small or large, is willing to share this sort of information. In Google&#039;s case, there is no question that competitors would dearly love to use the legal discovery process to allow their lawyers to peer at the company&#039;s confidential documents.

None of this meant to be dispositive as to whether or not Google engages in anti-competitive behavior. The reality is that the company holds a near 70% market share in search (a dominant market position if there ever was one) and that companies live and die by its results. Abuse of this market position would have huge implications for you, for paidContent and anyone else with a website. But for now, no compelling evidence has arisen to refute Google&#039;s position that it does not tamper with its results and that doing so would be bad for the company&#039;s business. And that includes, in my opinion, the allegations of ShopCity.

Jeff
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Colin,</p>
<p>Thanks for your detailed response and apologies to you and other readers it did not appear when you submitted it this afternoon (our back-end system that processes comments was down and no reader comments for this or any other story appeared until quite late this evening).</p>
<p>As for your substantive arguments, I stand by my final point that it seems improbable for Google to risk its reputation by manipulating its search results in order to sabotage a much smaller entity that (in my opinion at least) does not pose a strategic threat.</p>
<p>Nor do I belittle your accomplishment in creating a national shopping network with a number of city partners. The issue is that the type of content you are offering is not valued by search engines nor by users (the preponderance of commentary on SEO sites appears to back this position).</p>
<p>I take at face value your claim that you were unaware of MyTriggers and the related complainants. Still, your situation resembles the other ones in that it involves a prominent person with close ties to Microsoft. This may be a coincidence but it does not change the underlying fact; I will leave it to others to draw their own conclusions.</p>
<p>As for the idea that &#8220;they should just come clean&#8221;, Google&#8217;s reticence is understandable given that the subject in question is its search algorithm &#8212; the company&#8217;s most critical trade secret. No company, small or large, is willing to share this sort of information. In Google&#8217;s case, there is no question that competitors would dearly love to use the legal discovery process to allow their lawyers to peer at the company&#8217;s confidential documents.</p>
<p>None of this meant to be dispositive as to whether or not Google engages in anti-competitive behavior. The reality is that the company holds a near 70% market share in search (a dominant market position if there ever was one) and that companies live and die by its results. Abuse of this market position would have huge implications for you, for paidContent and anyone else with a website. But for now, no compelling evidence has arisen to refute Google&#8217;s position that it does not tamper with its results and that doing so would be bad for the company&#8217;s business. And that includes, in my opinion, the allegations of ShopCity.</p>
<p>Jeff</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: colin pape</title>
		<link>http://paidcontent.org/2011/11/15/419-the-story-behind-shopcity-and-its-antitrust-complaint-against-google/#comment-86158</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[colin pape]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 21:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paidcontent.wp.gostage.it/2011/11/15/419-the-story-behind-shopcity-and-its-antitrust-complaint-against-google/#comment-86158</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your assessment, though I think your headline is a little misleading, as you haven&#039;t actually dug into the story behind the FTC filing.

If you&#039;d like a copy of the complaint, or to speak with us so you can get the inside scoop for any further articles, please contact me via Twitter.

I think your piece is missing a few key details about our situation...

First, let me clarify that this is not a lawsuit. I was unaware of &#039;mytriggers&#039; until this article, but after looking into it, it&#039;s a totally different situation than ours.

We have filed a complaint with the FTC in hopes of sparking a serious investigation into Google&#039;s business practices to determine if, and how, they are behaving in an anti competitive manner.

To paraphrase Google&#039;s Chairman, Eric Schmidt (http://tinyurl.com/yk46p64), if they have nothing to hide, then there&#039;s no reason for them to oppose an investigation.

We wish that Google would be more transparent, and that they would not engage in practices that, to us, certainly appear anti competitive.

It seems that the only time Google responds is when they are faced with negative publicity or government intervention, which leaves few options outside of filing a complaint with the FTC.

Believe me, I would rather just run my business, but unfortunately, we were forced head-on into this issue when Google began penalizing our websites under the guise of &#039;quality control&#039;. This despite the fact that we regularly receive compliments from businesses and users on the ease of use, appearance and functionality.

You say that we pose no threat to Google, and that if they were to risk going after a competitor, it would be Amazon. However, you seem to ignore the fact that Google was never capable of squelching Amazon as their brand was established ahead of Google&#039;s. Same thing with a competitor like Yelp that built its brand in local search prior to Google launching their own local search service.

It&#039;s much easier for Google to suppress startups like ours because consumers are not yet searching for our brand on a large scale (though, on a local level, they certainly are).

You also say that our system doesn&#039;t work with search, or consumers, which is just not true.

For instance, go to Google and do a search for any category - ex. restaurants, plumbers, dentists, etc. plus &#039;midland, ontario&#039; and look to see where we come up (the full &#039;midland, ontario&#039; geo-modifier is necessary as there are so many places called Midland). Or, do a search for &#039;palo alto restaurants&#039;.

Want to buy a gift certificate online for a local business in Corona, California? Go to www.shopcorona.com/giftcertificates. It&#039;s the easiest way to get what you&#039;re looking for.

Hundreds of thousands of consumers have used our local sites, and in some communities, our sites are the hub of local commerce.

You can see some of our active cities here:

www.shopcity.com/examples

We have developed a very comprehensive and holistic platform for community commerce, and that is why companies like The Buffalo News, owned by Berkshire Hathaway, have partnered up with us and paid substantial licensing fees to use our system (ex. www.shopbuffalo.com).

You can see how it works and what the platform offers here:

www.shopcity.com/platform

The fact that Google recently began copying our multi-domain model (http://tinyurl.com/c72kbpj), and our in-community approach, is a good indication that we are onto something and not just a &#039;two-bit upstart&#039;.

Google has stated that the local space is of great importance to them (http://tinyurl.com/7so9l34), so they definitely have a motive to hinder others from becoming leaders, and if all it takes to stop a competitor from developing is a quick tweak to a domain profile, then why not?

Most companies don&#039;t get as far along as we have with our campaign to have our sites restored in Google and end up just fading away. We were able to make progress with Google because we have entire communities backing us, because we met Gary Reback, and because we were persistent in raising awareness in the press and pursuing our case with the FTC. Otherwise, we would probably still be penalized right now.

I appreciate the opportunity to respond, but perhaps next time, you could do more research on the companies you claim to have inside information on before you come up with a catchy headline and hit &#039;post&#039;.

All the best,

Colin]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeff,</p>
<p>Thanks for your assessment, though I think your headline is a little misleading, as you haven&#8217;t actually dug into the story behind the FTC filing.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;d like a copy of the complaint, or to speak with us so you can get the inside scoop for any further articles, please contact me via Twitter.</p>
<p>I think your piece is missing a few key details about our situation&#8230;</p>
<p>First, let me clarify that this is not a lawsuit. I was unaware of &#8216;mytriggers&#8217; until this article, but after looking into it, it&#8217;s a totally different situation than ours.</p>
<p>We have filed a complaint with the FTC in hopes of sparking a serious investigation into Google&#8217;s business practices to determine if, and how, they are behaving in an anti competitive manner.</p>
<p>To paraphrase Google&#8217;s Chairman, Eric Schmidt (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/yk46p64" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/yk46p64</a>), if they have nothing to hide, then there&#8217;s no reason for them to oppose an investigation.</p>
<p>We wish that Google would be more transparent, and that they would not engage in practices that, to us, certainly appear anti competitive.</p>
<p>It seems that the only time Google responds is when they are faced with negative publicity or government intervention, which leaves few options outside of filing a complaint with the FTC.</p>
<p>Believe me, I would rather just run my business, but unfortunately, we were forced head-on into this issue when Google began penalizing our websites under the guise of &#8216;quality control&#8217;. This despite the fact that we regularly receive compliments from businesses and users on the ease of use, appearance and functionality.</p>
<p>You say that we pose no threat to Google, and that if they were to risk going after a competitor, it would be Amazon. However, you seem to ignore the fact that Google was never capable of squelching Amazon as their brand was established ahead of Google&#8217;s. Same thing with a competitor like Yelp that built its brand in local search prior to Google launching their own local search service.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s much easier for Google to suppress startups like ours because consumers are not yet searching for our brand on a large scale (though, on a local level, they certainly are).</p>
<p>You also say that our system doesn&#8217;t work with search, or consumers, which is just not true.</p>
<p>For instance, go to Google and do a search for any category &#8211; ex. restaurants, plumbers, dentists, etc. plus &#8216;midland, ontario&#8217; and look to see where we come up (the full &#8216;midland, ontario&#8217; geo-modifier is necessary as there are so many places called Midland). Or, do a search for &#8216;palo alto restaurants&#8217;.</p>
<p>Want to buy a gift certificate online for a local business in Corona, California? Go to <a href="http://www.shopcorona.com/giftcertificates" rel="nofollow">http://www.shopcorona.com/giftcertificates</a>. It&#8217;s the easiest way to get what you&#8217;re looking for.</p>
<p>Hundreds of thousands of consumers have used our local sites, and in some communities, our sites are the hub of local commerce.</p>
<p>You can see some of our active cities here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.shopcity.com/examples" rel="nofollow">http://www.shopcity.com/examples</a></p>
<p>We have developed a very comprehensive and holistic platform for community commerce, and that is why companies like The Buffalo News, owned by Berkshire Hathaway, have partnered up with us and paid substantial licensing fees to use our system (ex. <a href="http://www.shopbuffalo.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.shopbuffalo.com</a>).</p>
<p>You can see how it works and what the platform offers here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.shopcity.com/platform" rel="nofollow">http://www.shopcity.com/platform</a></p>
<p>The fact that Google recently began copying our multi-domain model (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/c72kbpj" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/c72kbpj</a>), and our in-community approach, is a good indication that we are onto something and not just a &#8216;two-bit upstart&#8217;.</p>
<p>Google has stated that the local space is of great importance to them (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/7so9l34" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/7so9l34</a>), so they definitely have a motive to hinder others from becoming leaders, and if all it takes to stop a competitor from developing is a quick tweak to a domain profile, then why not?</p>
<p>Most companies don&#8217;t get as far along as we have with our campaign to have our sites restored in Google and end up just fading away. We were able to make progress with Google because we have entire communities backing us, because we met Gary Reback, and because we were persistent in raising awareness in the press and pursuing our case with the FTC. Otherwise, we would probably still be penalized right now.</p>
<p>I appreciate the opportunity to respond, but perhaps next time, you could do more research on the companies you claim to have inside information on before you come up with a catchy headline and hit &#8216;post&#8217;.</p>
<p>All the best,</p>
<p>Colin</p>
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